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dougbryan ([info]dougbryan) wrote in [info]boob_nazis,
@ 2006-05-24 15:00:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Next Entry
Response from Six Apart

As you are aware, on Friday we sent out a request to a member of this community asking her to remove her default user picture because it was found to be in violation of our standard restrictions for default userpics after being reported by a fellow LJ user.

Enforcing these restrictions is not a fun or enjoyable part of the LJ Abuse staff’s job, but it is important to maintain consistency throughout our service so that everyone (kids, adults, and parents) can know what to expect when they use LJ. We do our best to have as few restrictions as possible. With any restriction we attempt to make sure that we have a clear, objective test.

To use an analogy, this is like a police officer having to enforce speed limits in neighborhoods where kids play. When enforcing these policies, sometimes you end up catching someone who is in fact a very law abiding citizen, but who just happened to be driving over the speed limit.

That being said, we’d like to sincerely apologize for the following:

  • The lack of sensitivity our procedures appeared to show toward the right for women to breastfeed their children.
  • The confusion and perception that LiveJournal and/or Six Apart is against mothers who choose to breastfeed their children.
  • The impression that we simply were not willing to listen, when in fact we are.
  • The lack of clarity on the policies, which was possibly made worse when we updated our FAQ on Saturday. We updated the FAQ to clarify our policy, not to change it in response to this specific situation.

Simply stated:

  • LiveJournal is in no way against breastfeeding or breastfeeding mothers. We salute your dedication to raising happy, healthy children.
  • In the process of enforcing our policy, we are not saying in any way that userpics showing breastfeeding are wrong or inappropriate.
  • We appreciate your voices and your use of our service.

At present, we have agreed to review both our policies and our enforcement procedures to ensure that we are acting both consistently and fairly.  Along with this, we want to add appropriate detail to our online FAQ so that it accurately reflects our policy.  I look forward to involving [info]xavi7734 in this process.

By way of background, our Abuse team revisits these policies regularly to make sure they're the right solution for our users and for the company, and we'll be looking for ways that we can better address grey areas (like userpics supporting breastfeeding). We've always believed firmly in free expression, and we think that our policy of being strict about what's allowed in default user icons but lenient about what's allowed in non-default icons is a good balance between two very different points of view. We'll be working in the upcoming weeks and months to make absolutely certain that we have the right policy and the right way to handle issues.

Finally, we very much appreciate your support of LJ and the value that your community and those like yours bring. As I have conveyed to[info]xavi7734, it’s because of users like yourselves that LJ exists, and we want to continue to run a service that enables you to create community, connect with others, and express yourselves in a free, safe, and positive manner.

I look forward to reading your feedback to this post as a temporary member of the community. 

Thanks

Father of 4 breast fed children,
Doug Bryan
VP of Business Operations, Six Apart



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[info]xavi7734
2006-05-24 10:10 pm UTC (link)
Thank you very much for posting this Doug and for helping to clear up SixApart's view on this topic.

I am also looking forward to working with you directly in order help clarify and solidify the wording in the FAQ.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]magdalene74, 2006-05-25 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahavah_ehyeh, 2006-05-28 03:50 pm UTC
:) - [info]hojja_nusreddin, 2006-06-03 03:56 pm UTC

[info]pernwebgoddess
2006-05-24 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for your attention to this matter, Doug. We really aren't sensationalists, as you yourself are no doubt aware. Your professional and sensitive response has really helped restore my faith in your company, and made me much more comfortable with my decision to pay for an account with you. I'm sure I speak for many of us when I say this.

I do hope this can be a constructive dialogue.

(Reply to this)


[info]ectv
2006-05-24 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Thats much better than the carbon copy replies we've been getting.
I still think that the "no breastfeeding" icon issue is pretty silly, but I really appreciate you actually taking the time and energy to address our concerns and feelings in this matter.

p.s. - Make sure to give your lovely breastfeeding wife a hug tonight :)

(Reply to this)


[info]unlegal
2006-05-24 10:19 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for the apology. It is very much appreciated.

It is wonderful to know that we are being heard, and that you care about this issue, and want to resolve it fairly.

Thank you, again.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]xavi7734, 2006-05-25 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]unlegal, 2006-05-25 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xavi7734, 2006-05-25 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]unlegal, 2006-05-25 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tamago23, 2006-05-25 03:40 am UTC

[info]beyondinsanity
2006-05-24 10:19 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.
It's nice to finally get a real response from someone,as opposed to the blanket letters we've recieved up to date.
It's nice to know that sixapart is really paying attention to our concerns.
Thank you for taking time to listen to us and look into matters.

(Reply to this)


[info]viggofied
2006-05-24 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

It is so good to know that we've been heard and you are willing to work with us all.

(Reply to this)


[info]dwa20
2006-05-24 10:26 pm UTC (link)
RE: To use an analogy, this is like a police officer having to enforce speed limits in neighborhoods where kids play. When enforcing these policies, sometimes you end up catching someone who is in fact a very law abiding citizen, but who just happened to be driving over the speed limit.


I would be more content with the decisions made by Live Journal if the "police" were targeting the true offenders. This analogy bothers me in the same way that a speed trap bothers me. You apprehend the individuals who are honorable and the "criminals" as usually slip through the net.

If you go to directory search and type in any offensive term and ask that the users be displayed by user pics (aka default icons) you see photos of overt sexuality and sexual acts that are truly horrific. Here you will find images available to children that truly have the potential to harm them.

Why not utelize the wording in the state breastfeeding laws, and make and declare breastfeeding an act of nutrition and exempt it from the "nudity/sexuality" guidelines?

Set up the speed traps in the neighborhoods where the "criminals" reside, not in front of the church on Sunday morning.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]raving_liberal, 2006-05-24 10:39 pm UTC
yesss - [info]assfab, 2006-05-24 11:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercy_rain, 2006-05-25 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercy_rain, 2006-05-25 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 01:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercy_rain, 2006-05-25 04:23 am UTC
Right to display not protected? Hah! - [info]omnifarious, 2006-08-10 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raving_liberal, 2006-05-25 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 02:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raving_liberal, 2006-05-25 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magdalene74, 2006-05-25 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]christinahash, 2006-05-28 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladydouji, 2006-05-25 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamalynn, 2006-05-25 12:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladydouji, 2006-05-25 05:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamalynn, 2006-05-27 12:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahavah_ehyeh, 2006-05-28 03:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ksej, 2006-06-01 02:08 pm UTC
I agree - [info]electricmstress, 2006-05-24 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-24 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pipu, 2006-05-24 10:47 pm UTC
Agreed - [info]assfab, 2006-05-24 11:07 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-24 11:14 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]assfab, 2006-05-24 11:29 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-24 11:37 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]samuraigrrrl, 2006-05-24 11:40 pm UTC
I can to see what the fuss was all about - [info]rudestlink, 2006-06-05 11:35 pm UTC
LOLZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!1111111 A BADGE!!!!! HAEAHEH GREAT ANALOGY!!!!! - [info]assfab, 2006-06-06 03:25 am UTC
Re: LOLZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!1111111 A BADGE!!!!! HAEAHEH GREAT ANALOGY!!!!! - [info]rudestlink, 2006-06-06 11:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]assfab, 2006-06-06 01:05 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
Re: Agreed - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-25 02:12 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]saara687, 2006-05-25 01:53 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]theprophecygirl, 2006-05-24 11:38 pm UTC
Re: Agreed - [info]assfab, 2006-05-25 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquariumgirl, 2006-05-25 12:38 pm UTC

[info]joy_disaster
2006-05-24 10:46 pm UTC (link)
So... does this mean the people who have been warned are going to get suspension on the cut-off date or not? People are still receiving suspension threats. Can we get a clear answer on this? Livejournal hosts white supremacy communties for heavens sake - are we really going to have to go through the ridiculousness of watching breastfeeding icon users drop off one by one as they are suspended?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ceeinjax, 2006-05-24 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]theprophecygirl, 2006-05-24 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pfratz, 2006-05-24 11:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhiannonhero, 2006-05-25 03:58 pm UTC

[info]stellarstarrise
2006-05-24 10:46 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for the apology. I wasn't included in the "offensive" userpic scandal because, well, I don't happen to have a breastfeeding usericon (hate having my picture taken, feeding a baby or not.) However, I do support my friends and I do believe that an image of a breastfeeding child should be considered completely normal and as unremarkable as any other image of food or a person engaged in eating.

The designation that a breast (clothed or unclothed) is primarily sexual is offensive to me. I agree that offensive acts could possibly be performed with breasts, and I also agree that I'd prefer not to have my own daughters see such acts. But I must disagree and say that the sight of an infant nursing has never been offensive to me, and in fact, may require the active interest of a large population of people before it becomes mainstream: like the women of the 20's, displaying dimpled knees under short skirts, we are pioneering a new American (the rest of the world's not so regretfully behind in this matter) fashion.

Knees were once scandalous. Breasts are now scandalous (but only if they're in use, it seems.) The media's fascination with these knees made them seem commonplace, then a war made them seem completely normal. You'd never be caught dead staring at my knees now (unless there was something on one.) In ten years, if we're lucky, you'd never blink at seeing my baby (well, in my case it'd be babies, but they won't be nursing at 10!) at my breast. It would seem normal to you.

Many children live in a place where they may never see a woman nursing a child. Some of them might be curious enough to access our community, I'll admit that. Still, if one types "breasts" into the search, the first response of the search engine isn't "breastfeeding." There are some images (and some image communities) floating around out there (and I applaud them) that have the capacity to make me blush at 26, never mind 12 or 13. These images would be considered acceptable by many: note their proliferation in the movie industry, where even a PG-13 feature can feature naked breasts.

I think I'm trying to say that our pictures are meant to inform, and not to offend: I am, therefore, completely confused about the degree of censorship (and I do realize that they can be secondary icons) being afforded to such an act, which should be commonplace and unremarkable. This "taboo factor" is influencing many young couples against breastfeeding, even here, in one of the last-ditch places to turn for nursing help.




(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]stellarstarrise, 2006-05-25 02:52 pm UTC

[info]marliah
2006-05-24 10:47 pm UTC (link)
I just want to apologize to you (and all the people in charge), I think the outbursts from people, particularly in this community give breastfeeders a bad name.

I think the behavior in this community regarding this policy has been rediculous and immature and just want you to know not all boob nazis are LJ haters.

I do appriciate your post here and I hope it will shut some people up ;)

(Replies frozen) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]housepoet, 2006-05-24 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]runawaybunni, 2006-05-24 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]joy_disaster, 2006-05-24 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]starlitlexy, 2006-05-24 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]assfab, 2006-05-24 10:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marliah, 2006-05-24 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]runawaybunni, 2006-05-24 11:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marliah, 2006-05-24 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]runawaybunni, 2006-05-24 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]housepoet, 2006-05-24 11:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]talula_fairie, 2006-05-24 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]housepoet, 2006-05-24 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]serendipitylove, 2006-05-24 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-24 11:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arianamama, 2006-05-24 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beyondinsanity, 2006-05-24 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tarakay, 2006-05-24 11:34 pm UTC
Mod note - [info]pamagain, 2006-05-24 11:35 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]dwa20, 2006-05-24 11:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crayolaab, 2006-05-25 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jbarbie23, 2006-05-25 04:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magdalene74, 2006-05-25 03:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 03:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]talula_fairie, 2006-05-25 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disparate_ether, 2006-05-25 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]f1ymetothemoon, 2006-05-25 08:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]f1ymetothemoon, 2006-05-25 08:00 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]anysia, 2006-06-05 03:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xratedouroboros, 2006-05-27 12:37 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]xratedouroboros, 2006-05-28 07:30 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]xratedouroboros, 2006-05-28 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahavah_ehyeh, 2006-05-28 04:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xratedouroboros, 2006-05-28 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaaaty, 2006-06-04 02:22 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
Hang on a sec - [info]anysia, 2006-06-05 03:10 am UTC

[info]joy_disaster
2006-05-24 10:50 pm UTC (link)
Also, I want to clarify that no one thinks LJ is "against breastfeeding" - our issue is that it is being defined as "nudity and obscenity", so assertions that LJ supports breastfeeding mothers are beside the point.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pipu, 2006-05-24 10:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stellarstarrise, 2006-05-24 10:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]joy_disaster, 2006-05-25 02:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stellarstarrise, 2006-05-25 03:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jesurgislac, 2006-05-24 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]joy_disaster, 2006-05-25 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]molly_girl, 2006-05-24 11:52 pm UTC

[info]bopeepsheep
2006-05-24 10:55 pm UTC (link)
(oooh, conspiracy theory - LJ seems to have eaten my first version of this comment! *g*)

Thank you for taking the time to post here and apologize. I'm sure you realise how upset and insulted members - and non-members - have been about this issue. We appreciate the clarification and discussion you're prepared to put into this.

There are some continuing niggles.
- LJ Abuse responses over the last few days have been variously inconsistent, rude, hostile, contradictory, offensive, discriminatory, illogical, and mendacious. Daring to complain about their attitude has resulted in even more unpleasantness, and threats.
- The FAQ updating was done very badly - not changed in British English until well into Sunday afternoon, nor French/Italian/German. It was then implied or blatantly stated in several LJA responses that it had "always been thus" (anyone there read George Orwell lately?). While it is true that TOS effectively say you can enforce any policy you like, the point of FAQs is to clarify those policies so that people can apply them appropriately. You cannot honestly expect people to abide by a policy you haven't published. "Graphically sexual" does not and never would mean "nudity", there are legal and societal distinctions we all understand. Changing the wording in the middle of an argument smacks of desperation in most situations, and it's how it came across here too.
- the implication in the original responses that breastfeeding was being viewed as 'graphically sexual'. I don't think we need to tell you how wrong that is.
- "secondary sexual characteristics" were cited as unacceptable in an LJA response by LJA team member Carson. That includes breasts, yes, but also beards... are we going to see a clean-shaven ruling?
- the grey area that is the new ruling. Areolae vary greatly in pigmentation and size and this is a discriminatory policy, however reasonable a compromise it sounds. Male areolae are acceptable. Images of men with large amounts of breast tissue are acceptable. Images of cartoon breasts are apparently acceptable. Images of women in bikini tops smaller than the average hamster are acceptable. Images of women with 2 pixels' worth of areola visible are not? Women with small or pale areolae will get away with it (I'm not showing you mine right now but I bet you'd never spot them in an icon), women with darker pigmentation/larger areolae will not?

It's all been extremely maddening, not least because it all sparked from a diversionary tactic by someone who'd been "caught by the speed trap" themselves. I bet there hasn't been a single "oh no I saw what might be an areola" complaint from anyone viewing the schools search or doing an interest search. (And hey, if you're using LJ at all aren't you supposed to be old enough to see that kind of thing anyway? It's not like it's hardcore porn.) It would be much better if you'd put the searches back to returning just text, they'd take a lot less time to load and be much easier to read. But I guess that's a case of style over substance, and while it would be good to go into that now, it's probably not an appropriate place to do so...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aibohportposie, 2006-05-24 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]housepoet, 2006-05-24 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elfwreck, 2006-05-25 07:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vashti, 2006-05-25 08:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-24 11:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]junipertree, 2006-05-25 01:56 am UTC

[info]housepoet
2006-05-24 10:56 pm UTC (link)
While we have stopped our letter writing campaign to livejournal about their 'anti-breastfeeding' stance, livejournal.com continues to wage war against users with nursing pictures with areola/nipple showing.

So what is it? If you're willing to work with us and we have ceased fire on our side, shouldn't you show the same consideration for us?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]theprophecygirl, 2006-05-24 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-24 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]housepoet, 2006-05-24 11:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-24 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arianamama, 2006-05-24 11:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-24 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arianamama, 2006-05-25 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-25 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arianamama, 2006-05-25 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-25 12:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 12:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 12:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercy_rain, 2006-05-25 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 01:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jameth, 2006-05-25 02:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dantc, 2006-05-25 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hardvice, 2006-05-25 12:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 12:25 am UTC

[info]runawaybunni
2006-05-24 10:56 pm UTC (link)
While I appreciate your attempting to apologize, there are a few things I take issue with.

The first is your analogy. Your TOS was clear - no sexual/violent images. Nursing photos are neither. It wasn't that this person just happened to be 'driving over the speed limit' - they didn't do anything wrong.

It wasn't that your procedures appeared to show a lack of understanding. They DID show a lack of understanding and most of them were downright rude. You may sit here and say that you are willing to listen - and I don't doubt that you are - but when we got an email back saying things like "letter campaigns don't acheive anything" (I'm paraphrasing) it was inherently clear that you weren't willing to listen.

A no nudity rule is reasonable - excluding male breasts but not nursing ones is not. The message that sends is that a breast that is nursing is inherently more offensive than a totally bare male breast. If a male breast is not inappropriate, then surely a breast that is nourishing a child cannot possibly be.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]talula_fairie, 2006-05-24 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]magdalene74, 2006-05-25 04:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquariumgirl, 2006-05-25 12:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]donut_fiend, 2006-05-31 11:30 am UTC

[info]hisrisingstar
2006-05-24 10:58 pm UTC (link)
I think that many people would like a deadline of resolution. Many of us feel strung along, and feel that excuses are being made. I think a timeline of when we can expect resoultion would be best, because with your response I feel as if there isnt an end in sight.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ahavah_ehyeh, 2006-05-28 04:16 pm UTC

[info]stellarstarrise
2006-05-24 10:59 pm UTC (link)
(I guess you could say the open bottle their car was stopped for contained root beer instead of three-bulldozer mixed drinks.)

(Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]stellarstarrise, 2006-05-24 11:11 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]realcdaae, 2006-05-25 12:01 am UTC

[info]talula_fairie
2006-05-24 11:20 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for your candid response. It is much improved over the previous responses.

I sincerely hope that Live Journal will allow all breastfeeding icons, regardless of weather they are showing areola as this is standard for the community in the US. Weather people find it offensive or not is moot really, considering that a mother breastfeeding her child is exempt from indecency laws even if she is showing areola/nipple. If more companies like Live Journal would allow images of breastfeeding, it might change the tide towards having people view it as normal, which is how it should be viewed. By Live Journal restricting photos of breastfeeding in any way, you ARE sending a message that breastfeeding is somehow inapparopriate.

I also hope that you will reconsider suspending those users who have images of breastfeeding that include areola as their defult icons. I will lose many friends (and you will lose those customers) if you suspend them, and many women will suffer without their good helpful advice in the breastfeeding communities.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

I very much agree - [info]deannahoak, 2006-05-24 11:57 pm UTC
Suggestion
[info]dwa20
2006-05-24 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Instead of likening the act of breastfeeding to a minor traffic violation -- that is still an ILLEGAL act. Use wording similar to this state law in your TOS guidelines.

"A woman's breast feeding, including breast feeding in any place where the woman otherwise may rightfully be, does not under any circumstance constitute an obscene or lewd act, irrespective of whether or not the breast is covered during or incidental to feeding."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Suggestion - [info]ceeinjax, 2006-05-24 11:28 pm UTC
Re: Suggestion - [info]blonnie, 2006-05-25 12:16 pm UTC

[info]pelageya
2006-05-24 11:23 pm UTC (link)
this part "To use an analogy, this is like a police officer having to enforce speed limits in neighborhoods where kids play. When enforcing these policies, sometimes you end up catching someone who is in fact a very law abiding citizen, but who just happened to be driving over the speed limit." is very upsetting. If person is driving over speed limit he is creating a danger to someone. Why would you compare a breastfeeding mother to a nice person, who is creating a danger?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]assfab, 2006-05-24 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arianamama, 2006-05-24 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]becke1084, 2006-05-25 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamalynn, 2006-05-25 12:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pipu, 2006-05-25 04:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aquariumgirl, 2006-05-25 01:02 pm UTC

[info]assfab
2006-05-24 11:24 pm UTC (link)
A law abiding citizen who speeds just once and gets caught IS STILL SPEEDING. It's AGAINST THE LAW. Breastfeeding is NEVER inappropriate. It ISN'T against the law. It is actually illegal to prohibit breastfeeding in public, whether you can see aerola or nipple.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]noiseinmyhead, 2006-06-19 01:52 pm UTC
um - [info]assfab, 2006-06-19 04:43 pm UTC
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BREASTFEED - [info]assfab, 2006-06-19 04:48 pm UTC

[info]ceeinjax
2006-05-24 11:27 pm UTC (link)
[info]ravingliberal wrote:

In fact, classifying any part of the breastfeeding breast as indecent or in appropriate is harmful to society. A visible areola surrounding the mouth of a breastfeeding baby does no harm.

This is the crux of the entire argument, IMO. Photos depicting a breastfeeding child are not inappropriate. Period. There is absolutely no need to work diligently to define this "grey area" because breastfeeding is NOT a grey area. It is not sexual. It is feeding a human child in the manner nature intended that children should be fed.

There is really no need to waste a lot of time "in the upcoming weeks and months to make absolutely certain that we have the right policy and the right way to handle issues." There is only one *right* policy and only one *right* way to handle this particular issue. That is to have LJ's policy reflect federal laws and legislation in a growing number of states so that breastfeeding (and, by extension, photos depiciting mothers and children breastfeeding) is *protected* from labeling as "indecent" or "inappropriate". The issue of whether nipples or areolae are visible in the photographs is irrelevant.

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(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]lawngnome25, 2006-05-25 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]assfab, 2006-05-25 02:30 am UTC
EXACTLY - [info]jbarbie23, 2006-05-25 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bafleyanne, 2006-05-25 02:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jamigirl7684, 2006-05-25 04:16 pm UTC

[info]agirlday
2006-05-24 11:40 pm UTC (link)
I think this is a good resolution. I appreciate that you are willing to continue working on this issue. Thank you.

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